VIDEO: Entertainment Law: Why Do Musicians Need a Lawyer?

Paul Quin, entertainment lawyer and partner at Saxon|Gilmore, answers the question often asked “why do musicians need lawyers?”

The music industry is a multi-million dollar business. Recording companies, music publishers, managers and agents all have lawyers. Artists need representation just as much as anyone else. Chances are they will be offered a contract during their career and it is important to understand copyright and trademark and how it works. Contracts between band members and recording agreements, as well as how to get paid streaming revenue. We can offer advice in all those areas. If you have any questions about entertainment law, contact Paul at 813.314.4523.

© 2025 Saxon|Gilmore. Saxon|Gilmore publications should not be construed as legal advice on any specific facts or circumstances. The contents are intended for general information and educational purposes only, and should not be relied on as if it were advice about a particular fact situation. The distribution of this publication is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship with Saxon|Gilmore. This publication may not be quoted or referred to in any other publication or proceeding without the prior written consent of the firm, to be given or withheld at our discretion. To request reprint permission for any of our publications, please use our Contact form via the link below. This site may contain hypertext links to information created and maintained by other entities. Saxon| Gilmore does not control or guarantee the accuracy or completeness of this outside information, nor is the inclusion of a link to be intended as an endorsement of those outside sites.

Understanding Copyright Law: Protecting Creative Works

Copyright law is a vital aspect of intellectual property rights that safeguard the creative works of individuals and businesses. From books and music to software and artistic creations, copyright ensures that creators maintain certain control over how their work is used, distributed, and monetized.

 

What Is Copyright?

Copyright is a legal framework that grants the author or creator certain exclusive rights to their original works. These rights typically include reproduction, distribution, performance, display, and adaptation. Unlike patents or trademarks, copyright applies automatically upon the creation of an original work, provided it meets specific criteria such as originality and fixation in a tangible medium.  Registration of the copyright, however, with the Library of Congress provides the best mechanism to protect those original works.

Key Principles of Copyright Law

Exclusive Rights – Copyright holders have the exclusive right to use, reproduce, and distribute their works.

Fair Use Doctrine – Certain uses of copyrighted material, such as for some educational purposes, for a newsworthy story, criticism or parody, may be allowed without permission under fair use.

Duration of Protection – Under current law, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus seventy years. If there is more than one author, the seventy years begins to run after the death of the author who passes away last.

Public Domain – Works whose copyright has expired or were never copyrighted may be freely used by anyone.

Licensing and Permissions – Creators can license their works to others while retaining ownership and control over its use.

 

Copyright Infringement and Enforcement

Unauthorized use of copyrighted material can lead to infringement claims, potentially resulting in legal penalties. Copyright enforcement is crucial in protecting creators and ensuring fair compensation for their work. Organizations such as the U.S. Copyright Office oversee registrations, while digital platforms increasingly use automated tools to detect unauthorized use.

Challenges in the Digital Age

With the rise of the internet, copyright enforcement faces unique challenges. Issues such as piracy, unauthorized sharing and sampling, and digital reproduction complicate efforts to uphold copyright protections. However, evolving technologies, such as blockchain and AI-powered tracking systems, offer new solutions for safeguarding intellectual property.

 

Conclusion

Copyright law remains a cornerstone of creative and intellectual property protection. Understanding its principles helps artists, businesses, and consumers navigate legal frameworks responsibly. As technology evolves, copyright laws will continue to adapt, ensuring that creativity thrives while respecting the rights of creators.

 

© 2025 Saxon|Gilmore. Saxon|Gilmore publications should not be construed as legal advice on any specific facts or circumstances. The contents are intended for general information and educational purposes only, and should not be relied on as if it were advice about a particular fact situation. The distribution of this publication is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship with Saxon|Gilmore. This publication may not be quoted or referred to in any other publication or proceeding without the prior written consent of the firm, to be given or withheld at our discretion. To request reprint permission for any of our publications, please use our Contact form via the link below. This site may contain hypertext links to information created and maintained by other entities. Saxon|Gilmore does not control or guarantee the accuracy or completeness of this outside information, nor is the inclusion of a link to be intended as an endorsement of those outside sites.

VIDEO: Paul Quin shares important information on copyright law.

 

Paul Quin, a partner at Saxon|Gilmore, shares important information on copyright law.  He concentrates his practice on entertainment law, personal injury defense, environmental law, general tort law, complex business litigation, and general commercial business law. Mr. Quin has also focused his practice on representation of insurance companies in general commercial liability, premises liability, and products liability insurance litigation. Mr. Quin can be reached at 813.314.4523 or via email pquin@saxongilmore.com.

 

© 2025 Saxon|Gilmore. Saxon|Gilmore publications should not be construed as legal advice on any specific facts or circumstances. The contents are intended for general information and educational purposes only, and should not be relied on as if it were advice about a particular fact situation. The distribution of this publication is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship with Saxon|Gilmore. This publication may not be quoted or referred to in any other publication or proceeding without the prior written consent of the firm, to be given or withheld at our discretion. To request reprint permission for any of our publications, please use our Contact form via the link below. This site may contain hypertext links to information created and maintained by other entities. Saxon| Gilmore does not control or guarantee the accuracy or completeness of this outside information, nor is the inclusion of a link to be intended as an endorsement of those outside sites.

Katy Perry Found Liable for Copying Christian Song

A Los Angeles jury recently returned a verdict finding that Katy Perry's 2013 hit song, "Dark Horse”, violated a prior copyright attached to a 2009 Christian song called "Joyful Noise." Katy Perry and four other songwriters as well as the label and distributors were all found liable for damages to Christian rapper Marcus Gray (a.k.a. Flame) and two co-authors of Joyful Noise. The jury awarded damages of $2.78 million.

Katy Perry and her fellow songwriters defended the claim partially on the basis that they had never heard the song "Joyful Noise" before and, therefore, could not have violated its copyright. Because, however, Katy Perry had previously recorded in the Christian music genre under the name Katy Hudson, it appears the jury did not find her claim credible. Once a jury doubts a party's word in relation to one defense, other defenses can become problematic. The second line of defense was that the allegedly copied component was simply a basic building block of music and not subject to copyright protection. Once the first defense was rejected, and the jury was exposed to a convincing musicologist testifying on behalf of the plaintiff, the jury also rejected the second defense.

The allegedly stolen component is neither the melody nor the lyrics of Dark Horse. Rather, a repetitive ostinato acting as a drone underneath the melody was held to be substantially similar to the prior recording. This finding is troublesome for future songwriters in several ways. First, as was the case in the Blurred Lines litigation, the offending component is not actually susceptible to copyright. Second, the offending ostinato follows a musical tradition which can be traced back to the music of Johann Sebastian Bach. Current copyright litigation seems to be heading down a dangerous path which confuses musical inspiration with illegal infringement. Such an issue can stifle creativity and lead to reluctance to release new music. The use of musicologists as experts has led to the development of a cottage industry of partisan testimony much like that which has developed in pharmaceutical and tobacco litigation. We can expect much more litigation in this area until the case law becomes more clearly defined and precedent establishes that claims can only be brought on infringement of a copyrightable component.

If you have questions on copyright infringement or general questions on entertainment law, please contact me.

My Band’s Trademarked Name

The running of a successful band should be considered no different than running a more traditional business. As a business must protect its intellectual property so must a band, including the right to use its own name exclusively. A Trademark is used when a company, business, or in this case a band, seeks to obtain protection for its name and/or logo, as used on its goods and/or services. That “mark” identifies to the consumer that the goods or services come from a particular source. Should you decide to protect your band’s name through registering it as a Trademark, there are certain steps you need to take. To be registerable, your name must not create a “likelihood of confusion” between your name and one already registered, or one which exists in a prior-filed, pending application. Once submitted, the Trademark office might find that the likelihood of confusion exists when your name or “mark” is similar to another and when the goods and/or services are related such that consumers might believe they come from the same source. If, for example, you decide to name your band name “The Blak Keyes” fans of The Black Keys may be confused and disappointed if they turn up at your show! Accordingly, such a Trademark would not be accepted. Even though the spelling is different, remember that potential consumer “confusion” exists when the pronunciation of the two names are “phonetic equivalents”.

When addressing trademarks the mark itself must be dissimilar from others. For band names this is the essential test as it is usually accepted that bands, in selling music, regardless of genre, seek attention from the same consumers. Since there are so many bands, finding an original and protectable name can be a challenge. Significantly, “fanciful” names (invented words with no dictionary meaning), are more likely to be registered than descriptive marks. Also “arbitrary” marks (recognized words used in an unusual or unexpected situation) are also more likely to be protectable. Remember that registration is often refused for names which could be considered disparaging or offensive. To make sure that your band name is available for trademark registration, make sure you search the federal database. You can do so through the United States Patent and Trademark Office (“USPTO”) free search system known as “TESS” (Trademark Electronic Search System) which is available at http://www.USPTO.gov/trademarks. Please remember though, that TESS will only search federally registered marks and trademark rights also frequently exist through state “common law”. Such common law rights protect the use of the mark in commerce within a particular geographic region and in most states, registration is unnecessary. You must search, using Google or other search engines for businesses or brand name which share your name and conduct business with a similar group of consumers within the same geographic area to be sure that you have not chosen a name being used by someone else.

Prior to registering the Trademark, issues related to ownership of the intellectual property rights must be addressed. Most bands, in the absence of an agreement to the contrary, are considered partnerships under state law. Accordingly, each member of the partnership may own an equal share of the assets including the intellectual property. As a result, ownership of the name – and the rights associated with using the name in commerce - may not reside in a formal business entity but jointly among the individual partners or members. Because this can cause problems when band members leave, an agreement between the members, and a clear and unambiguous transfer of the intellectual property into a business entity owned by the members, is recommended. This agreement is also important because it can act to overcome copyright presumptions that ownership of an original work belongs to the creator.

In conclusion, when seeking to obtain protection for your band name make sure that it is appropriately and exhaustively researched, both in federal databases and in your own geographic region, to make sure that the name is not taken. Second, make sure that ownership of the name is held within a business entity owned by you! Good luck.

Why We Should All Love Taylor Swift

Any artist who has ever dealt in any way with a record label understands the importance of leverage. A new and essentially unknown artist, almost regardless of talent, has little room to obtain a more favorable deal than the one initially offered. As artists prove their commercial appeal, of course, and provide profits to their labels, their negotiation capital rises. The second contract, or in some cases revisions to the first, can be much more lucrative: financial success provides the necessary leverage for a more beneficial deal. In almost all cases, however, certain demands by the artist such as ownership of the Masters remains off the table. Moreover, those successful artists tend to use that leverage to gain a better deal for themselves. While there is nothing wrong with that, Taylor Swift has recently set the bar much higher.

 At the end of 2018, Taylor Swift left Big Machine Records and signed with Republic Records, a subsidiary of Universal Music Group (“UMG”). While acknowledging that artists with Swift’s level of success are few and far between, the deal she and her team negotiated with UMG is exceptional, both from Swift’s perspective as well as the perspective of her fellow label mates. Overwhelmingly, ownership of the Master Recordings belongs with the label and is not even up for negotiation. Ownership of the Sound Recording Copyright (“SR”) provides the owner with control over how and where the music is used, especially its use in television, film or any other synchronization with a visual component. In maintaining such control, the rights holder also reaps the financial benefit. Swift’s deal with Republic allows her to retain ownership of the Master Recordings and, therefore, control the use of the sound recording. This, in essence, allows her to double her revenue from any synch licenses she makes as well as to maintain creative and artistic control. Swift, however, used her leverage and negotiation capital to obtain additional concessions from UMG which would benefit other artists under the UMG umbrella.

Specifically, UMG owns a stake of approximately 3.5% in Spotify, estimated at a value in excess of $800 million. Swift and her team made it a condition of her deal that should UMG sell its Spotify shares, then UMG must distribute a share of the proceeds to all artists on its roster. Such a condition is presumably based upon the premise that the value of Spotify has increased due to the creativity of artists and that currently an absurdly, disappointingly low royalty finds its way back to the artist’s bank account. That Swift would use her negotiation capital to bargain for the benefit of others is not just refreshing, but sets an example for others.

While few artists have the leverage of Taylor Swift, the example she sets in contract negotiations with labels is inspiring. May those artists of similar standing emulate her and may those on the way up aspire to her message and approach. Whether you are a fan or not go download a Taylor Swift CD on the Republic label. If you are an artist with significant leverage, make it your mission to match Taylor Swift’s approach. Doing so makes this business better for all.

 © 2019 Saxon Gilmore. Saxon Gilmore publications should not be construed as legal advice on any specific facts or circumstances. The contents are intended for general information and educational purposes only, and should not be relied on as if it were advice about a particular fact situation. The distribution of this publication is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship with Saxon Gilmore. This publication may not be quoted or referred to in any other publication or proceeding without the prior written consent of the firm, to be given or withheld at our discretion. To request reprint permission for any of our publications, please use our Contact form via the link below. This site may contain hypertext links to information created and maintained by other entities. Saxon Gilmore does not control or guarantee the accuracy or completeness of this outside information, nor is the inclusion of a link to be intended as an endorsement of those outside sites.

Paul Quin was a Presenter at St. Petersburg College

Paul Quin was a presenter at St. Petersburg College, as part of its Speaker Series, an open event for professional development with industry speakers. Mr. Quin discussed key aspects to the business side of being a musician including contracts, licensing, and royalties.

Mr. Quin has spent many years as a professional drummer and remains active in the music industry. He represents a variety of entertainers, mostly within the music business, specializing in representing drummers and other sidemen in all aspects of their professional careers including band agreements, endorsements, contract drafting, negotiation and review, business plans, business formations, management, and publishing.

  Saxon|Gilmore also has a strategic professional relationship allowing for the ability to liaise with one of the country's leading intellectual property firms and through that relationship, Saxon/Gilmore can provide advice on copyright and intellectual property law. In addition, we can help by taking steps to properly develop projects and negotiate and legally secure interests in:

• Personal appearances
• Recording and touring projects
• Illegal use of celebrity image

Our firm has a thorough, comprehensive understanding of the laws and regulations in the State of Florida and many other states. We ensure all legal issues are in order, which saves our clients time and money by avoiding costly delays that can adversely affect a project. Mr. Quin can be reached at 813.314.4523 or via email at pquin@saxongilmore.com.

Paul Quin was a Panelist at The Sessions Event in St. Petersburg, Florida

Paul Quin was a panelist at the Sessions event held at the Palladium Theater at St. Petersburg College, and discussed entertainment law. Other panelists included Ray Luzier (World Touring Drummer); Chick Corea (22-Time Grammy-Winning Jazz Legend, Pianist, and Composer); Bobby Rossi (Executive Vice President of Entertainment Ruth Eckerd Hall, Capitol Theatre and Ruth Eckerd on the Road); Dom Famularo (Drumming's Global Ambassador); Christine Ohlman ("The Beehive Queen", Songwriter, and Long-Time Vocalist for the Saturday Night Live Band); Carlos Guzman (Tour Manager); and Rick Drumm (Founder and President of Traction Business Coaching and Music Industry Executive). The Sessions is geared towards educating musicians to empower them on the business side of the entertainment world.

For more information about The Sessions, go to http://thesessions.org.

Mr. Quin has spent many years as a professional drummer and remains active in the music industry. He represents a variety of entertainers, mostly within the music business, specializing in representing drummers and other sidemen in all aspects of their professional careers including band agreements, endorsements, contract drafting, negotiation and review, business plans, business formations, management, and publishing. He can be reached at 813.314.4523 or via email at pquin@saxongilmore.com.

Trademarks Can Get Complicated When Members Leave the Band

Some bands take the initial necessary steps to protect their band’s name by filing for trademark protection. Many, however, fail to think through the implications of a band break-up on ownership of the trademark. As a result, ownership rights to trademarks can get complicated.

The United States District Court for the Middle District of Florida recently heard a case involving a former member of the Commodores. The band, formed in 1968, had many hits including “Easy”, “Celebrate”, and “Lady (You Bring Me Up)”. In 1984, Thomas McClary, founder and lead guitarist, left the band to pursue a solo career.

The issue of trademark ownership began to arise in 2009 when McClary formed a group and began advertising his new band as a “Commodores Reunion”. The original Commodores, although with several new members, continued to record and tour. McClary was instructed through Commodores’ counsel not to use the name Commodores, but chose not to heed the warnings and formed subsequent groups named “Commodores Featuring Thomas McClary” and “The 2014 Commodores”.

 In 2014, the remaining members of the Commodores, William King and Walter "Clyde" Orange, felt they had no other choice, but to file a trademark infringement lawsuit against McClary on behalf of the Commodores (Commodores Entertainment Corp. “CEC” vs. McClary). The court ruled that since McClary had left the band, the trademark remained with the group. The court concluded that "King and Orange made valid assignments of their ownership rights in the marks to CEC and that CEC now owns the rights to the marks.”

 Upon appeal of the trial court’s decision, the 11th Circuit ruled that McClary be allowed to reference the Commodores. For example, he can advertise “Thomas McClary, founder of the Commodores”, but he cannot use the name Commodores in his new band’s name.

Litigation is costly and full of uncertainty. All bands should execute a band agreement among the members which addresses ownership of trademarks and other intellectual property rights. Such an agreement can help avoid litigation and the costs associated with taking a claim to court.

Paul Quin’s Advice to Musicians

August 2017 – Paul Quin, entertainment and litigation lawyer, spoke with David Ward of Musicians on the Record about what advice he would give when meeting with a musician.  Some of the questions Mr. Quin may address are:

What level are you in your career?  Are you just starting out or serious about your craft?

What is your definition of success?  Is it full time work that pays the bills or do you want to be as big as Bruno Mars?

Do you have an LLC or S corporation? 

Listen to Mr. Quin's advice:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib35aBHnSv4

Paul Quin and The Sessions Featured

Paul Quin and members of The Sessions panel were featured in Batterie Magazine, a French magazine. 

College of Saint Rose

Paul Quin was a panelist at The Sessions event held at the College of Saint Rose.  Other panelists included Fred Mollin (Record Producer & Composer), Rick Drumm (Traction Business Coaching), Gregg Bissonette (Touring & Recording Drummer & Member of Ringo Starr and his All Starr Band), Chris Stankee (Artist Relations Sabian), Dom Famularo (Drumming's Global Ambassador; Freelance Sessions), and Christine Ohlman ("The Beehive Queen", Vocalist, Songwriter & Musicologist - Long-Time Vocalist Saturday Night Live Band).

Jules Follett, author/photographer of Sticks ‘n’ Skins, started The Sessions after hearing stories of musicians who were not treated fairly in their business dealings.  She formed a panel of consultants to help artists navigate the business side of the music industry.   For more information on The Sessions, go to http://thesessions.org.

 

Pictured: Paul Quin (Entertainment lawyer), Fred Mollin (Record Producer & Composer), Rick Drumm (Traction Business Coaching), Gregg Bissonette (Touring & Recording Drummer & member of Ringo Starr and his All Starr Band), and Chris Stankee (Artist Relations Sabian)

Paul Quin and Roy “Futureman” Wooten in Nashville

Paul Quin and Roy “Futureman” Wooten were at The Sessions event that was held in Nashville, TN on August 18, 2016.  Wooten is a musician and composer.  The Grammy award winner is a percussionist and member of the jazz quartet Béla Fleck and the Flecktones, along with banjoist Béla Fleck, harmonicist Howard Levy, and Roy's brother, electric bass virtuoso Victor Wooten.

Paul Quin was a panelist at the event and discussed entertainment law.  Other panelists included Grammy award winner, Jim Peterik (Composer, singer, producer and founding member of “Ides of March” and “Survivor”); Dom Famularo (Drumming's Global Ambassador); Christine Ohlman ("The Beehive Queen", Songwriter and long-time vocalist for the Saturday Night Live Band); Liberty Devitto (Recording artist and Legendary Drummer for Billy Joel); Rick Drumm (Founder and President of Traction Business Coaching and music industry executive) and Rick DeJonge (KHS America, Artist and Education Relations Manager).

The Sessions is geared towards educating musicians to empower them on the business side of the entertainment world.  For more information about The Sessions, go to http://thesessions.org.

Mr. Quin has spent many years as a professional drummer and remains active in the music industry. He represents a variety of entertainers, mostly within the music business and specializes in representing drummers and other sidemen in all aspects of their professional career including band agreements, endorsements, contract drafting, negotiation and review, business plans, incorporation, title search, management, and publishing.  He can be reached at 813.314.4523 or via email at pquin@saxongilmore.com.

Paul Quin in Article for Clarksville Online

Paul Quin, entertainment lawyer and partner at Saxon|Gilmore, was mentioned in an article for Clarksville Online, “The Voice of Tennessee”, when he was a panelist at the recent Sessions event in Nashville, Tennessee. http://www.clarksvilleonline.com/2016/08/28/sessions-panel-empowers-educational-summit-nashville/

Mr. Quin has spent many years as a professional drummer and remains active in the music industry. He represents a variety of entertainers, mostly within the music business, and specializes in representing drummers and other sidemen in all aspects of their professional careers including band agreements, endorsements, contract drafting, negotiation and review, business plans, incorporation, title search, management, and publishing.  He can be reached at 813.314.4523 or via email at pquin@saxongilmore.com.

 

 

Attorney Paul Quin met Grammy-winner George Benson when he performed at the Capitol Theatre, in Clearwater. Mr. Benson began his jazz singing career in the 60s, singing songs from jazz to pop. The singer/songwriter/musician is currently touring in Mozambique, South Africa, and the United Kingdom.

Tennessee Music Educator Association

Paul Quin will be a panelist for The Sessions at the Tennessee Music Educator Association.  The event will be held on Friday, April 15, 2016, at the Gaylord Palms Opryland Hotel.  The Sessions is an organization created by Jules Follett, author/photographer of Sticks ‘n’ Skins. She wanted to help musicians learn the business side of the entertainment industry.  Panelists will discuss topics also covered in videos created for NAfME (National Association for Music Education), including entertainment and business law, artist relations, history of music, marketing, self-promotion, image maintenance, and artist relations, with a focus on the academic and real-world practical advice.

Additional panelists include Dom Famularo (drummer, educator, author, motivational speaker), Christine Ohlman (singer, songwriter, vocalist for Saturday Night Live band), Rick Dejonge (composer), and Rick Drumm (founder and president of Traction Business Coaching).

For more information about the event, go to http://thesessions.org/event-details/tennessee-music-educator-association-tmea.

Benny Greb – at sound check and solo at Modern Drummer Festival!

Check out these videos of Benny Greb at the Modern Drummer Festival in 2010.

 

Mediatech Institute in Dallas, TX

Paul Quin, entertainment lawyer and partner at Saxon Gilmore & Carraway, P.A., was a member of the Sessions panel at the “Your Path to Success” event. The event was held at the Mediatech Institute in Dallas, TX on May 11, 2015.

The Sessions panelists included Dom Famularo (Global Drumming Ambassador), Joe Hibbs (Artists Relations Product Development), Christine Ohlman (Vocalist/Musicologist), John Martinez (Drummer/Producer), Mark Schulman (Drummer/Author) and Chuck Rainey (Legendary Bassist/Recording Artist who played with Steely Dan and Aretha Franklin, and is the co-founder of Rhythm Intensive).

The panelists discussed marketing, networking, artist relations, self-promotion, and entertainment law.

Access to Music LTD

Dom Famularo, Sue Wilson-Quin, Paul Quin, Bev Bevan, Jules Follett, Joe Hibbs

Access to Music LTD in Birmingham, England was host to the Sessions event on March 23, 2015.  Panelists included Paul Quin, Bev Bevan (Legendary Drummer for The Move and Electric Light Orchestra), Sue Wilson-Quin (Singer/Songwriter), Dom Famularo (Drumming’s Global Ambassador), and Joe Hibbs (Mapex Drums Artist Relations Manager).


The Sessions supports students and new artists in the music industry by providing these events to teach the other side of the music industry - the business side.  Topics discussed include marketing, entertainment law, artist relations, self-promotion and more.

Futureskills Media City, UK

Rick DeJonge, Jules Follett, Paul Quin, Dom Famularo, Sue Wilson-Quin, Billy J. Kramer, Joe Hibbs, Liberty DeVitto

The Sessions held an event at Futureskills in Media City, UK on March 20, 2015.  The topics included marketing, networking, artists relations, self-promotion, and entertainment law.  Panelists included Billy J. Kramer (Liverpool Legend/Recording Artist), Sue Wilson-Quin (Singer/Songwriter), Dom Famularo (Drumming’s Global Ambassador), Liberty DeVitto (Drummer/Recording Artist), Joe Hibbs (Mapex Drums Artist Relations Manager), and Paul Quin.


Check out the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dapO8j4354w